Curse

samifly · Jul 25, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Why shouldnt it work with warrior stances, or just ranger ones? How about shouts?. why is only just "Attack skills" allowed?. It would kill rangers because it would seriously hinder their ability to use secondaries.

Assassins get extra pip of energy and critical strikes. Rangers get expertise, theres really no reason to make it just apply to ranger skills and "attack skills"

oh -and sorry for not reading that part. my apologies.

Curse You · Jul 25, 2006, 07:13 AM // 07:13

OK how about this,
Expertise would effect:
Ranger Skills
Attack Skills (ranger, warrior, assassin [dervish?])
Stances (mantras would be included)
Shouts
All "rituals", ranger or ritualist (it is actually part of the original description)

I think I have now covered all things that aren't unessicary to alter. If I missed something, I probably forgot about it.

RTSFirebat · Jul 25, 2006, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bam23

Touch Rangers are broken.

Seriously.

/signed for Expertise working only on Ranger skills. Just like Divine Favor only works on Monk spells.

Never going to happen, so stop asking for that.

Hidden in the Mist · Jul 25, 2006, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Admit it, Anet is never going to nerf Touchers or IWAY for that matter.

Celios · Jul 25, 2006, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hidden in the Mist

Admit it, Anet is never going to nerf Touchers or IWAY for that matter.

Except that IWAY has gone through multiple nerfs in its lifetime and touch rangers are incredibly easy to counter with nothing more than a skill or two. If there are really that many of them out there, exploit it.

Shadow of Light · Jul 25, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46

We could use some skills that work against touch skills in general, though. It would make things more interesting.

Like...

1. Lightning Current (Ele: Air)
For X seconds, the next person to use a Touch Skill on you is zapped for Y damage and knocked down.
or
Burning Skin (Ele: Fire)
For X seconds, the next person to use a Touch Skill on you is burned for Y damage and set on fire for Z seconds.

2. Jealous Spirit (Necro?)
For X seconds, the life-stealing skill used on target ally works in reverse (benefits the target, detriment to toucher).

3. Poisonous Ichor/Flesh Disease (Necro?)
For X seconds, anyone using a Touch Skill against target ally is poisoned/diseased.

4. Broken Fingers/Crippled Hand (Warrior/Assassin)
Strike the hand of the next person who attempts to use a Touch Skill against you, causing weakness for X seconds and disabling that skill for Y seconds. (I can see the Shock Warriors protesting now...)

5. Dwayna's Blessing (Monk)
For X seconds, the power of Dwayna protects target ally. Life stealing skills and vampiric weapons will not drain their health to benefit an enemy.

6. Sacrificial Spirit (Rit)
For all allies within its range, any life-stealing skills used against allies instead draw from this spirit until its health expires.

And so on...

Nvwa Strider · Jul 25, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

yeah right, next skill is gonna be

''all foes in the area that got necromancer as their 2nd proffesion will instantly explode''

Spura · Jul 25, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

i dissagree... your suggestion would kill the build. while i think somthing should be done, i would rather see these skills becomming attacks as you get counters(blind, protection spells, ...) and the build lives... guild wars seems to be in need of more diverse builds

So? It is a stupid gimmick build, it won't be missed. And if they changed to spell, a new, much more interesting build would be born. Cultist Fervor touch spammer. With higher DPS but less defense and it would run out of energy faster. Also being a spell it would have more counters.

People say it does have counters, so it isn't overpowered. Truth be told, touch ranger owns 90% of builds in AB. Sure you can use diversion and distracting shots, but they are still a bit overpowered if you have to bring such specific counters. I remeber this same discussion about a year ago. It was about draw conditions smiters with ether renewal. People said they weren't overpowered because you could diversion their spam. But you can counter any skill with diversion. And in the end teams were bringing 2 or more dom mesmers just to deal with smiters. Any other build would lose.

The existence of counters doesn't make something not overpowered. It has to do with availability of counters to various classes. And in AB you have less of a luxury of having a team build to counter things for you than in HA or GvG. You can't count on dom mesmer diverting that toucher for you. So you basically have to carry all counters for the cookie cutter builds on yourself. Which for something like assassin means: You have to have Way of the fox or wild blow, you have to have AoD, which you cancel after combo, or they will put their conditions on you.

Shadow of Light · Jul 25, 2006, 01:18 PM // 13:18

There are touch skills in more than just the necro department...

*shrugs, goes back to game*

samifly · Jul 28, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

In the latest Patch - Expertise's description has been changed to "all non-spells are reduced by 4%"

milias · Jul 28, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

In the latest Patch - Expertise's description has been changed to "all non-spells are reduced by 4%"

Awesome! I've always liked playing my ranger

Now, let's hope the Paragon and Devish classes have some non-spell skills that are useful to a ranger.

grogxz · Jul 30, 2006, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Coming from PvE just played on RA to see how the new professions perfom. brought my N/Mo. i found the monks in RA very anoying and thought of something to be a little bit annoying to them without changing to much and changed 2nd profession to Me.

build before:
LT/Lifepainstrike/Shadowstrike/Vampiric Gaze/Barbed Signed/Rebirth (good in PvE Public)/Hex or Cond. removal depending on area
(I play SS MM and 55 too but thats my own build so use it most of the time with little modifications)

after modification:
LT/Lifepainstrike/Shadowstrike/Vampiric Gaze/Energie Burn/Diversion/Rez Signed/Plage Touch

worked better then my PvE build of course.
yeah not great but got me my first 2 Gladiator points.

first encounter with a R/N Touchie:
someone called him as target
me PvP noob just followed saw the skills he used and my little brain thought activate anti spell skills -> energie burn diversion.
u know it already - he went down fast. someone said touch noob owned and me of course asking what it is -> look at gwguru well here i'm. now i know what the fuss is about and why my build accidentially worked so well against this special foe. my Vamp skills hurt them, my life trans couldn't be countered by the standard touch ranger, energie burn workes well on the low e-regen of the most builds, distortion halves their efficency if it hits the right spell and thats highly probable since they cast their spells very often and fast.

after that i had more encounters. the team with the touchers lost in about 80%. the teams that i got the gladiators points with had no touchers and one of these even got no monk (D/? R/? N/Me N/Me).

draw your conclusions.

easyg · Jul 30, 2006, 07:53 AM // 07:53

My only problem with touch rangers is that vampiric touch really doesn't make any sense. It should either be redesignated as a spell or it should work like an attack skill.

If it's changed to a spell, then expertise won't reduce its energy cost.

On the other hand, if it remains a skill then it should behave like any other attack skill. I.e. it should be dodgeable, or blockable, and affected by condtions like blindness etc.

Ilya Khan · Jul 30, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Traps would help, no? Standing under a friendly AOE attack? I say you bring back the Touch ranger's greatest foe - the trap or spike ranger. Pop up frozen soil and revive the good ol' days, if ya ask me.

grogxz · Jul 30, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

If a solution is needed then i vote for Expertise should work like Divine favor.
This solution lets the real rangers still have their excellent energy management and does not impact the necros who would not be happy if their skill is changed.
It prevents further exploits that may or may not come with the new professions. A complicated system is susceptible of unwanted synergies.

KamikazeChicken · Jul 30, 2006, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Can you people let this thread die already? Gaile already jokingly asked if Touch Rangers deserved a nerf. She truly didn't think they do, and she'd be absolutely right. Seriously, kite the damned R/N, and let it go. They're not overpowered, they've never been overpowered, and they're easy as all else to negate. >.>

Notice how KITING doesn't even involve the use of a skill. Anyone can do it! It's just happens to be made even more effective with healing, kds, diversion, snares, etc. helping out.

Caleb · Jul 30, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

This thread is tougher to kill than a w/r with 7 dead pets in the area!

LordLucifer · Jul 30, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

ooooooooooooooooook didnt read all 9 pages but..

a build that doesnt require the player to look at the screen too much, every1 knows exactly what hes gonna do, and MOST builds out there cant stand the slightest chance to beat (or you counter it or your chance is 0%..) IS overpowered and NEEDS a nerf.

makosi · Jul 30, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

Can you people let this thread die already? Gaile already jokingly asked if Touch Rangers deserved a nerf. She truly didn't think they do, and she'd be absolutely right. Seriously, kite the damned R/N, and let it go. They're not overpowered, they've never been overpowered, and they're easy as all else to negate. >.>

Notice how KITING doesn't even involve the use of a skill. Anyone can do it! It's just happens to be made even more effective with healing, kds, diversion, snares, etc. helping out.

Now that's plain ignorance. Kiting is great in theory but you can't attack or cast spells whilst moving and rangers bring running skills and will catch up with you before you know. Practically, its not as effective as you might think. Cripples are then plague touched on to the nearest foe and water/illusion snares have poor durations. In most situations, kiting renders you useless for a number of seconds.

KamikazeChicken · Jul 31, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Now that's plain ignorance. Kiting is great in theory but you can't attack or cast spells whilst moving and rangers bring running skills and will catch up with you before you know. Practically, its not as effective as you might think. Cripples are then plague touched on to the nearest foe and water/illusion snares have poor durations. In most situations, kiting renders you useless for a number of seconds.

Kiting has been used against warrior trains, touch rangers, anything getting in melee range, since this game has been released. It's the most effective defensive ability currently in the game. Just because people are horrid at it doesn't make the ability any less effective.

1. Touch Rangers won't be able to spam on a kiting target, even with a speed boost.

2. Crippling can't be touched off, unless people are standing still. Yes, that's a common instance in ABs, but that usually means they're now off you and on someone else.

3. Most useful water snares have 10 second durations. If your team can't stop 1 overextended target in 10 seconds, you're not doing something right. I'll chalk this up to being ABs.

4. Kiting is still the best defense ever against anything trying to get in melee range. Yes, touch rangers and warriors are always going to catch up. They'll always have a speed boost. Kiting a warrior means use the run+stop strategy to reduce crits. Kiting a touch ranger means you can't be spammed, you'll just get a few hits here and there.

5. You shouldn't have to constantly spam things on any character you could possibly run in PvP. Monks don't even require having to heal things 24/7, especially in RA/TA/ABs. If you're having that much trouble kiting and healing as a monk, you're truly not that great at monking and/or kiting, and you still need more practice.